Watch | The good and bad of product friction

Watch | The good and bad of product friction

Learn how to identify product friction, solve for different types, and why it's not always a bad thing.

I would say that there are absolutely times where friction is a terrible thing and there's no way to spin it in a positive way, but I would say plenty of times friction really helps slow the user down in a way that's really valuable and meaningful to them.

—Agata Bugaj, Senior Product Manager at Fullstory

Agata Bugaj, Head of Product Management at Fullstory, joined Melanie Crissey, Product Marketing Manager, for the last LinkedIn Live session in our Product Management series. In this episode, which aired on June 11, 2019, Agata and Melanie discuss the implications of product friction–good and bad.


Agata and Melanie discussed topics including:

  • How to identify product friction.

  • How to solve for different types of friction.

  • When and why friction is not always bad.

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Watch the Replay

Read the Transcript

Melanie Crissey: Hi, welcome. Thank you so much for joining us for Fullstory Live. I'm your host, Melanie Crissey, and we are recording live from the beautiful Fullstory studio here at HQ4 in sunny, hot Atlanta, Georgia. I am thrilled to be here with Agata Bugaj. Agata is a Head of the Product Management practice here at Fullstory, and just a little bit of light housekeeping to know what you're jumping into day. This is our third and final session in a series on Product Management that we've been doing on LinkedIn live over the last couple of weeks. All of these sessions are recorded, so you can review the old ones on YouTube or on the Fullstory channel, and this one will be recorded and the transcript will be up on the blog after. So if you need to duck out, have lunch, do you your thing, all of this will be available for you later.

Melanie Crissey: We are live, live for real. So this only works if you give us your questions, your suggestions, your ideas, your banter, your reaction emojis, your live Tweet storm. Bring it. I've got a great team from Fullstory here that's going to help me get those questions from LinkedIn to my space phone. So our agenda is we're going to do quick introductions, we're going to talk, just discuss about the topic for the day which is friction, and then we're going to go straight to your questions that you've sent over. So participate and we'd love to hear from you.

Melanie Crissey: So if you're just joining us, again, my name is Melanie Crissey. I am a product marketing manager here at Fullstory. I was a Fullstory customer for several years before joining the company about two and a half years ago. I am just really grateful to be in the room with you, Agata. Agata is a leader here. Agata, introduce yourself, tell everybody a little bit about your experience.

Agata Bugaj: Yeah, absolutely. First of all, thanks so much for having me, Melanie. It's super fun to be here. So yes, my name's Agata, I'm on the produce management team here at Fullstory. I've been at Fullstory a little bit less than you. I've been here about seven months. It's crazy how quickly time flies, but it's been-

Melanie Crissey: Only seven months.

Agata Bugaj: I know, it's crazy.

Melanie Crissey: I feel like it's been so long.

Agata Bugaj: I know. I know, but it's been amazing. And actually, my path to Product Management I would say was a very long and windy road, if you will. I actually started my career as a software engineer, and I loved what I was doing, but I often times found myself asking questions like why are we building this? And who is this for? And what are the goals that they're trying to achieve? And what's happening in the market?

Agata Bugaj: So I found myself doing some soul searching and I thought, you know, I really am interested in this thing called Product Management. I didn't know much about it, and so I again, took sort of a long and windy road to get into product. I went to business school, I spent some time doing consulting, and then ultimately made it to product and absolutely love it. Have been here ever since, and I actually spent ... prior to joining Fullstory, spend almost six years at Home Depot working primarily on the site experience and the Product Management team, so super excited to be in product and to talk to you about friction because it's such an important topic. So, yeah.

Melanie Crissey: Yeah. Yeah. Friction is super near and dear to my heart and I'm actually kind of self conscious about it. I was recently accused of delivering a friction-based onboarding, and I'm like processing what that it's not what I meant to do, so I'm processing that. So I'm really, really excited to talk about it today and kind of learn with you. So just to get grounded for anybody who's joining the call who maybe ... what is friction, so can we talk about what do we talk about when we talk about friction? Can you define it at a really high level?

Agata Bugaj: Yeah, absolutely. I love what that was starting there, right? Because you have to define the thing first before you talk about it. So friction is basically any time that your customers are trying to do something, to have a goal in mind, and they're unable to achieve that goal. They're not able to do the thing that they want to do, which often times is actually we want them to do also, right? So as an example, I guess I would say take a step back, two high level buckets of friction. There's the ... we've built something and it's not the experience that enables our customers to complete their goal. So a great example of this would be customers trying to check out and for the life of them, they just can't. They keep getting some error message, and they just cannot move forward. That's friction. That's very ... I like to call it frustration. The experience exists and it's just frustrating, something's not working.

Agata Bugaj: There's another bucket of friction that's really just around opportunity identification. It's a customer is trying to do something and they're using your product in some work flow, and the product just hasn't yet evolved to the point where it can help them. So a great example of this might be let's say you're planning a trip and it's two days before and you take your suitcase out of the closet and you're like, ugh, I forget this thing is broken. The zipper doesn't work for some reason, right? And you're like, gosh, I don't actually have time to go to the store and buy a new suitcase. Gosh, I wish I knew if this favorite retailer, X, Y, Z, was able to deliver me the suitcase of my dreams within ... before I leave for my trip.

Agata Bugaj: And if they have that information on the site, they ... you knew that it was in stock and you knew that you could get it, you maybe knew how much you had to pay to get it before the time that you leave because there's a cost associated with that, or a value rather, if you have that information, you could make a decision. You could reach your goal of making sure you had ... this is a terrible example, but you know, that you have a suitcase that you can take with you, right? So that would be sort of what I would call an opportunity. Not so much frustration, but your product could evolve if you have a site that sells suitcases for instance, your product could evolve to a state where it could meet your needs.

Melanie Crissey: Yeah. No, I love that and I can think of so many real examples, so we're going to be thinking a little bit about e-commerce examples, shopping is a good example, but sometimes it's SaaS products, but in e-comm, I think about the difference between your search takes too many steps for me to get the results that I want, the filtering is too hard, versus your site has no search on it at all. But there's also, and I'm totally biased, my background is in performance so I really care about speed. So there's also this aspect of friction which could be lagginess or slowness, right? Maybe you designed it or the opportunity is met and it's there, but it's just taking too long. So how do we think about solving for those types of friction.

Agata Bugaj: Yeah, absolutely. And that's a great example of that what I would call that frustration type of friction. You built the thing, but it's just not meeting the need because it's taking you too long and the thing is spinning and things like that.

Melanie Crissey: So it falls in the first bucket.

Agata Bugaj: Yeah.

Melanie Crissey: Because it's just not working as designed even though it's there.

Agata Bugaj: Exactly. But you know, it's interested, you mention bucket and then you also mention kind of how do we think about prioritizing friction. Those actually go very hand in hand and what I mean by that is any strong product team is going to have what I call a diverse or balanced backlog of things that they're working on. I think about it in buckets. There's the bucket of work that you do to drive revenue. There's the bucket of work that you do to reduce costs. There's the bucket of work around driving C set up, so customer satisfaction, delight. There's the bucket of work that really gets that technical performance and infrastructure work and making sure that your product is healthy. And you have these different buckets of work and you realize that you need to be doing all those things to have a product that not only maximizes business value, but also customer delight.

Agata Bugaj: And so when you think about gosh, how would I actually prioritize something that maybe is performance related versus hey, this feature that I know is going to drive revenue. In an ideal situation, you actually don't have to trade off between the two. And it's not an exact science. It's not like you can say, hey, 20 percent of my time every single week is going to be here or there, but you kind of have this idea of this is directionally the types of work that we should be doing, and so then when it gets to ... let's say you have a bucket.

Agata Bugaj: How teams define buckets is, you know, there's definitely some ... how do I put this? There's no exact science but the team has to get together and figure out what are the buckets that we're going to sort of slaughter work into. And if you have a bucket that's all around hey, maybe it's performance issues or maybe it's defects or bugs or what not, then you prioritizing against sort of ... you're comparing apples to apples in that case. You're just saying we know we need to spend some percentage of our capacity making the site more performant, right? These are the things that we can do to address that. Which one's going to give us the most value from a business standpoint as well as from a customer standpoint. So that's ideally the trade off that you would actually just need to make.

Melanie Crissey: Yeah. Yeah. I think that trade off in value is I think where I always get so stuck where I'm just like ... so kind of going back, taking a step back, we talked a little bit about prioritizing friction, but even in order to prioritize it, you have to identify that it exists. So what are the tools and processes that you follow to just know that friction's happening in the wild?

Agata Bugaj: That's such a good question. There are multiple ways, and some of it goes back to what type of friction are you actually able to identify. The first thing that I love to do when I get into a new space is it's a good old journey map. As basic as that is, it's the ... what a journey map does is it really enables you to understand your customer and what are the things that they're doing today that either help them or make things harder for them. So at the highest level, you identify areas of opportunity where your product could slot in. So as an example, if I'm ... again, we're going to use the same terrible example but we started there so we're just going to continue.

Melanie Crissey: We're really attached to the suitcase.

Agata Bugaj: Yeah, let's say that I am

Melanie Crissey: Yes.

Agata Bugaj: Terrible example.

Melanie Crissey: Free startup idea.

Agata Bugaj: Exactly, right? I need to understand when customers come to my site, what are they looking ... what are the goal that they're trying to achieve? So going out and identifying what are my personas, who are my customers, what are their personas, and what are the key areas of the workflow, and where do they expect me to slot in or where do they want me to slot in or where could I slot myself in? It's really, really important. So that's a very good qualitative way of identifying those areas of opportunity, right? When it comes to ... but there are also quantitative ways. So let's assume that I am and I know that ... so I have a lot of analytics and tracking and things like that, and I know that my cart-to-order is a certain percentage. If I have the proper analytics set up and the dashboard and all that stuff, when things dip, when defects get introduced or performance issues arise, if I have the right tracking set up and the right alerting, I can actually be notified or be aware that there's some sort of friction ... the site, the thing that we've built isn't doing what we intended for it to do based on things that we know today. So that's sort of a quantitative way that you can identify friction.

Agata Bugaj: Of course I have to mention that there are tools like Fullstory that actually can play in both buckets, and what I mean by that is we've defined, as you very well know and have used in the past, our frustration heuristics, so we can identify if someone is, for lack of a better word, expressing negative sentiment towards an experience because they're ...

Melanie Crissey: Rage Clicking, yeah.

Agata Bugaj: So we can identify that, or we could say hey, you know what, we want to look at customers who are going from cart to order to see what that experience looks like and actually qualitatively also become aware of opportunities that we could go after.

Melanie Crissey: Yeah. Yeah. I love that and I've seen you do this in real life. I feel like the journey map is something that everyone talks about and I think until we started working together, I didn't know what the deliverable was. So we're talking about the research to actually make an artifact so you can understand why is somebody even on But then your product, your website, you have all these analytics, you have maybe something like Fullstory that's going to alert you when friction goes up so you can proactively keep an eye on that as well. I love ... I think you really have to have both. Like if you were just going to have analytics or something like Fullstory, and you don't have the research to understand the story behind the data, you're going to be in a bad spot.

Melanie Crissey: So I do want to just take a second. We've been chatting for a minute. If you're just joining us, this is Fullstory Live, a LinkedIn live series. We're talking about friction today and Product Management. So send your questions over. I think I'm going to ask you one more question and then we'll do live Q&A. So if you have an idea or some friendly banter or comment, get it in because we're going to that section soon.

Melanie Crissey: So last thing I want to ask is, okay, so maybe we've identified a problem, we've prioritized the problem, so we even know, okay, we have bandwidth this week, we're going work on it. Maybe it doesn't move the needle when you fix it. So what happened? How do you go back and figure out what went wrong when you're trying to fix the friction and the fix isn't working?

Agata Bugaj: Yeah, that's another great question. I think the first thing that you have to identify is why were you not able to move the needle, right? To me ... buckets, there are two buckets and how I think about that. The first one is around, did we actually identify the problem correctly as well as the success criteria. So anytime you've identified an opportunity, you have some input that suggests that that's something you should do. So for instance, going back to the cart-to-order example, potentially cart-to-order dips and you go, oh, okay, well we're seeing this gap in sort of this KPI. So we've identified an opportunity and now we're going to go ahead and solve it. As part of that, you define your success criteria to say hey, if we build this thing, we expect cart-to-order to go up by 20, 30 bids, whatever it is. So there's a problem identification and the data that goes behind that.

Agata Bugaj: Then there's the actual thing that we built, the solution. It's possible that we actually didn't build the right thing. You identified the right opportunity and unsuccess criteria, but the solution just wasn't what it needs to be. So the path that you take is going to depend on which bucket you land in. So this one is all around, this is bucket number one, I talk with my hands, about really just validating-

Melanie Crissey: We both do.

Agata Bugaj: That's right. Confirming that you're going after the right thing and you're measuring correctly, and so that goes into making sure the analytics is set up correctly, that your dash boarding is set up correctly, that you've maybe didn't miss an input or made some assumption that actually ended up being false. And then here you go into ... let's assume that you did this correctly. So here you go into the solution, so then it's just a matter of understanding why didn't it actually move the needle. So what I love to do is watch sessions quite frankly. Do I say it or not? I'm not here to sell, but watching sessions is one really great way to understand what a customer is doing.

Agata Bugaj: At the same time, just talking to customers. So maybe as simple as leaning over and saying hey, can you use this and experience and tell me what you think? Or doing like a hallway stability test, or something else, and just getting some really quick feedback to see if it's something obvious or maybe if you just need to do a lot more research to understand why the thing that you built isn't actually solving the problem.

Melanie Crissey: Totally. This just lights a fire of shame in my heart. I want to share really quick, so this happened to me with the onboarding flow for Fullstory, we had our success criteria, we wanted to optimize for people getting Fullstory installed. So we actually had that part right and we had the right dashboard set up to see are they getting installed, but it was the solution that we got wrong and the way we caught it was not only by watching sessions, but also listening to our support team. So our Huggers here at Fullstory caught it and then I was able to go quantify it with Fullstory with the session data. What it actually was was we tried to introduce a one-click installation option, but it required your browser popups to be on and so everyone who tried to click that option failed and it was just like, ah, I'm so glad. I can't even imagine how long that would have taken me to catch if one, customers weren't really generous in giving their feedback to me, but two, if we didn't actually have the tool to be able to see how many people are going down this path to failure.

Melanie Crissey: So I think that's ... this is why I think this stuff is so important. So okay, so I want to check the doc and just here on my fancy, glitter space phone here, to see if anything's come in. We do have ... okay, so there's one question that I definitely want to make sure we address. It came in before the talk even started, and that's is there such a thing as good friction? And what do you think about that?

Agata Bugaj: Great ... oh, that's such a good question. I'm going to actually answer this in multiple ways. So one, as a product practitioner, but also just as a user of the Internet. As a product practitioner, you never want to create an experience that's going to irritate a customer, frustrate them, make them unhappy. So full stop, right? That's not the intent at all.

Melanie Crissey: That's not the goal.

Agata Bugaj: However ... that's right. That's not the goal. However, I would say also as a product practitioner anytime you get any input that helps you propel the product forward, that's a good input. All right, so if I take that lens, feedback is a gift. And so from that sense, I would say yes, absolutely, friction ... understanding where friction exists is a really, really good thing from a product practitioner's standpoint.

Agata Bugaj: As a user of the Internet, I would say that there are absolutely times where friction is a terrible thing and there's no way to spin it in a positive way, but I would say plenty of times also when friction really helps slow the user down in a way that's really valuable and meaningful to them. So as an example, if you're agreeing to something as part of like a sign up flow, you want to be reminded of what you're signing up for, as an example. So a modal pops up that's like, are you sure that you want to ... yes, please, thank you for reminding me. Or I forget my passwords all the time, and if I'm going to get locked out after three attempts, please tell me because then I'll just take a minute and I'll think about it and then I'll try to remember my password. I'll put a little bit more effort into it. So that's really helpful. It stops me in my tracks, but it's really there to help me and so I appreciate that.

Melanie Crissey: Yeah, that really helpful form feedback, because otherwise I really am just going to convince myself I remember what my password is or just type it wrong and try to cram it in. The other one I think about that I think has saved my butt a lot is where they slow you down when you want to delete something. It's like, okay, you're going to delete this, it's not going in the archive trashcan so you can revisit it later, it's gone forever. We're going to make you sign your name, give us your passport, and type delete the exact element because it's like, I don't want you to get in that situation where you deleted something you need. So slow UX definitely has a place in design and I think can be part of a delightful experience, even though it can be friction in that moment.

Melanie Crissey: Okay, so going back to data. I think this is one where I really feel like it's a weak spot for me, so I'm kind of asking to learn. So how do you know when you have enough data to make a decision about the friction you're trying to solve? Otherwise I feel like I could just research in a corner for months and never be confident enough to say got it.

Agata Bugaj: That's a good question. I would say at the highest level, it depends a lot on how much effort or investment will it take to do the thing that you potentially are going to do with that information. So as an example, if you have one or two customers, they email you and say something like, hey, the text on this button doesn't feel right. It seems like you're using the wrong words. You can take that piece of feedback, you could take a look at the text and the button, and you could say oh gosh, you know what? They're right. That is ... we have introduced friction unintentionally. That's going to take me a minute to fix, and you'll just go and do it, right? So you just need one or two pieces of feedback and you go with your gut and you're done.

Agata Bugaj: However, if you're going after an opportunity that's going to take, call it, 10 people for nine months, you're making a massive investment. At that point, you likely don't know how you're going to solve for the opportunity. You haven't gotten there yet, but you know. You know enough that it's going to be a massive investment and so you better make sure that you're looking at a lot of different inputs, a lot of different data points, so that you can feel pretty good about making that investment. Yeah. That's how I would think about it.

Melanie Crissey: Yeah. No, that makes sense. So it's like proportional to the amount of resources or people you need to mobilize, which I guess is just kind of common sense, just out of respect for people's time and the risk that you're putting into it.

Agata Bugaj: Yeah. I mean it's ... exactly. Time is money, and so if you're going to invest a lot of time, you have to make sure that you feel good about the decision that you're making. I will also say that I think also with time and with experience, you get better at kind of understanding what inputs really matter and which ones matter less. So you may actually get to a place where, call it, 10 years ago you would have ... I'm simplifying this, you would haven needed 10 inputs to feel pretty good about a decision, but you've learned enough where that you can take a few shortcuts and maybe now you only need four, but you've already invested over the last however many years, and getting those different inputs. So there's a little bit of that as well, I'd say.

Melanie Crissey: Okay, so now that makes me want to ask you something else, which I know you're going to hate that I'm asking this, because we agreed we weren't going to talk about it before we walked in the room. But is that a case for experimentation?

Agata Bugaj: 100 percent.

Melanie Crissey: Because sometimes you just need to prove to yourself that it's right. Maybe you run an experiment?

Agata Bugaj: Yeah, absolutely. So I am the biggest fan of AB testing as one form of experimentation, so absolutely, I think that there are definitely times when you should be AB testing where you don't have enough data, you don't have enough inputs, and we're really just putting something out there in the wild and letting customers kind of tell you is a really, really great thing to have. Number one fan of AB testing for sure. For sure.

Melanie Crissey: Yeah, I think what makes me scared about it is sometimes the amount of work. You really have to invest in developing two really good experiences in order to experiment without dropping the ball. So that almost doubles the risks sometimes in terms of what you're putting in just to find out which one works. So it's such a tricky thing.

Agata Bugaj: No, for sure. And I think sometimes it also comes down to well, what if you invest in this thing and it's the wrong thing to invest in, right?

Melanie Crissey: Right.

Agata Bugaj: So then you at least find out earlier. And you can set up AB test in different ways, too, such that you can actually minimize level of effort up front. So for instance, you could do things like fake door tests where you don't actually build the thing, but you get enough insight that customers want the thing that you're looking to build. So there are ... because you're right. You definitely don't want to spend too much of an effort building the AB test if you actually ... if there are other things that you could do. So there are ways to get it at some of that. For sure.

Melanie Crissey: And I feel like that's such a good strategy in marketing as well is just test demand for something. I think there's a great thing I've seen happen here in Atlanta where people will make a landing page for a SaaS product or a B to C product even, way before they've started building it just to collect emails and see if people are interesting. So the fake door ... I'm a big fan of the fake doors. Always curious to know what's behind the fake door.

Melanie Crissey: So we only have a couple minutes left. I do want to just kind of transition the conversation back to Product Management at large, and just see if you have any comments you want to share about what it's like to work in project management at Fullstory, and what people can do if they're interested in maybe getting in on the fun.

Agata Bugaj: Yeah, absolutely. So I think that it's amazing to work in Product Management at Fullstory. I think we have such a great team here as a whole, and then if I think about those folks that we work most closely with, the product managers, the designers, the engineers. I mean, just a phenomenal group of people that I've really enjoyed working with, have learned a ton from. So definitely net positive on the Product Management experience at Fullstory. I would say very few people, I think, growing up say I want to be a product manager, so folks find themselves getting into product in different ways, multiple ways to get into Product Management. I think one thing that I think works well and worked well for me personally was working in an organization where there is a product team, and working closely with that team, want to learn more about what it's like to be a PM and then the skills that make someone successful, and also to sort of help that team in whatever skillset you end up potentially having.

Agata Bugaj: And then just making sure that you understand enough about what it means to be a PM and then you kind of slowly, slowly make your way over. I've seen that work many times, not just for myself. That's the advice I would give to anybody is if you're interested in Product Management, make sure that you raise your hand, make sure that you are doing your due diligence, and working closely with that team. That's definitely one way to make it in Product Management.

Melanie Crissey: I think that's why I went back and was kind of watching the session with Tommy and Hannah. They were talking about his journey. He said no one wakes up thinking they want to do this.

Agata Bugaj: Exactly.

Melanie Crissey: He found his way in through consulting. Your background is in engineering. What if you're a super experienced PM and maybe you're just looking for a different work environment, something a little bit different? Is Fullstory hiring for people of that caliber at the moment?

Agata Bugaj: Oh my gosh, I'm so happy you said that, and that was not planted. Absolutely. So we are ... Fullstory's very much a rocket ship, as you know, and so the product team is absolutely growing. So yes, if you happen to be a kick-ass PM, we're definitely totally looking for kick-ass PMs. So, yeah.

Melanie Crissey: Check out and-

Speaker 3: We do have any audience question.

Melanie Crissey: Oh, okay. Oh, we have an audience question come in. All right. Oh, okay. So Shiv is asking can you define with examples how you find friction in onboarding? I'm going to try to answer this real quick. So I use Fullstory to look for examples of friction in my onboarding, and I literally just build the biggest funnel ever from sign up to getting your magic moment, which it can be getting your script installed or it could also be just talking to a salesperson if that's how you prefer to buy. Then I look for the errors in the Rage Clicks. That's kind of my process. In a checkout flow, are there things, ways that you identify friction? Maybe in an onboarding sign up? Ideas? Things I missed?

Agata Bugaj: Yeah, no. I think you hit the nail on the head. I mean that's definitely a great way to find areas of friction. That's absolutely where you start-

Melanie Crissey: Just the job ... to where the drop off points are. In order to do that, you just need a funnel. So whether or not you're using a Fullstory funnel or some other analytics tool, you know big funnel is you just want to build it all the steps in, and then look for where the dips are, and then you can kind of slice and dice from there.

Agata Bugaj: Yeah. And you could always just watch customers, to sit next to them and see what they're doing and ask questions.

Melanie Crissey: Do a little traditional research.

Agata Bugaj: Yeah, but if you want to do the set, you know, two in the morning, that's not an option.

Melanie Crissey: Yeah. I mean, yeah. Yes. Usually. Usually not an option. Somebody mentioned ... a comment we got from somebody was that prototyping tools like Axure are really successful. Have you used something like that before?

Agata Bugaj: Oh, absolutely. Huge fan of prototyping. Multiple tools that you can use for that. But that's another really great way to get feedback from customers quickly before you build the thing. Yeah.

Melanie Crissey: You build your prototype.

Agata Bugaj: Yes.

Melanie Crissey: In Axure or InDesign or whatever it is that you-

Agata Bugaj: Invision, Figma.

Melanie Crissey: Invision. That's what I'm thinking. InDesign is something else. Figma, yeah. Whatever those are. Or draw it on a piece of paper.

Agata Bugaj: Yeah, paper prototype, and that's a thing.

Melanie Crissey: It's never led me astray. I think that might be all of our audience questions. We are getting kind of close to time. If you have ... I'm going to look for one last minute, if you have something like a burning desire, something you're thinking about, you want to comment it in. I'm going to give it just a second before we wrap up. I think, too, you know, the conversation does not end here. So if you have ideas, things come up after this recording, or you're visiting this later, you can always comment, send a comment of Fullstory's LinkedIn feed. We watch that pretty regularly. Or send us a Tweet. We have a whole team of Huggers that help us respond to our Tweets. We are always interested to hear from customers and just folks who are doing this about what's working for them. Reach out. If there are no other questions, then what I'll do is just kind of close it up.

Melanie Crissey: Agata, I just want to say thank you so much for sitting here with me today. This was really fun. It was kind of a good break in the workflow. I'm going to ... do you have any final thoughts, like last parting?

Agata Bugaj: Oh gosh. Parting thoughts. I mean this has been great. And to your point, the conversation doesn't stop here, and so definitely if anyone has comments or questions or ways that they think about this that might be different, I would love to learn more. I'm always looking to learn.

Melanie Crissey: Yeah, challenge us.

Agata Bugaj: Yes, exactly. Exactly.

Melanie Crissey: Okay. Great. Then yeah, I think that's it. Leave your comments, follow us on LinkedIn, stay in touch with Fullstory. We've got content like this shipping out all the time.

Agata Bugaj: Yep. Thanks, Melanie.

Melanie Crissey: Let's get back to it ... thank you. Thanks.